Back Dated Odium Pact Thread.

“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.”
― Sun Tsu, The Art of war.

I know its pretentious as fuck to quote sun tsu, but god damn was it appropriate.

There is a way to deal with spies, a very easy and real way and there is a reason I spy on some factions and not others. It is all about how well those factions are run, Spying and espionage is only "Over Powered" if the faction is run Badly. we have all seen films like donnie brasco, or even the recent Avatar film where the guy sent under cover "goes native" likes the new lifestyle more then his old and says fuck you to the mission.


But this is all assuming that my spies are all "plants" people who were originally euro-corp members who were then planted into target enemy factions, people who had an original mission to begin with. But there is also a second kind of spy, "the defector" the established member who for what ever reason dislikes his faction so much he decides to rebel against them, Me being me and having the reputation in the community that I do I am the first person they come to. this again is a symptom of a badly run faction.


However, I always say leadership isn't about power, but rather a position of responsibility, If a "Planted" spy goes native, and likes his faction more than mine, well I submit to defeat that faction is better then mine, it is good for the community and should remain. As a leadership figure I have responsibility to my members current and past, hell I have a small amount of responsibility to people who are my friends within the community, in order to keep them as friends expectations need to be maintained.

Think of the faction euro-corp like an alliance and its members like factions, if one faction in the alliance has positive standings to an external faction or alliance, those standings need to be escalated to the whole, or risk losing those members(factions) over all.

However the reverse is also true, if a member from a badly run faction wants to defect wants to come to me so I can help destroy, derail or otherwise subvert their faction/leadership structure, I am under obligation to work with and help that person, or lose them as an ally or even acquire them as an enemy. if they contribute to the whole and work with and help me, I am equally obliged to do the same with them, anything else would a form of bad leadership and it would equate me to the current leadership structure in which they are revolting against.

My point is, if specific factions in the community weren't so awfully run I wouldn't be able to send my spies into them because I would lose them, equally I wouldn't have established long term membership including officers defecting to my cause (or their own)

At the very Least, my actions might encourage factions to be run better, going for quality over quantity of members, trying to find members that fit rather then lying to acquire as many members as they can. I'd say how other people run their factions is their own business, but it is exactly my business, I will be there to exploit, prod and divide any faction deemed weak and unable.


"It is essential to seek out enemy agents who have come to conduct espionage against you and to bribe them to serve you. Give them instructions and care for them. Thus doubled agents are recruited and used." ~Sun Tzu

simply because people seem to like when I have a follow up quote that compliments my argument.

I would also like to point out, if the original builder has rights or if the faction has rights, would have to be decided, otherwise say for instance MrTagarean who left DFN, who was a ship builder, could retract the rights and retrain ownership, and leave DFN with out a fleet. If I had a spy build a factions ships, I could retract owner ship and leave them in a bad position.

If the faction owns the ships, well who decides who owns the faction? is it the leader or the players, what if a leader of a faction is working for me? does that mean I own that factions ships by proxy?

The sensible thing legally speaking would be to say starmade and schine retain ownership, that would clear up a lot of this discussion and actually give mods authority, but then replica ships like starwars, star trek and such would cause greater legal issues.

Whos to say you made those ships anyway, do you have proof you created them before anyone else? hell do you have proof I even have them? I am known for lying its just a screen shot of folders. Find me 1 person who has actually traded with me and confirmed I have lazarus ships and by proxy your ships, with chat logs and you might have the start of a discussion.

But basically what we have here is you pleading to the mods to enforce factional politics, something entirely unenforceable, and beyond reason to do so even if they could.

As for selling them, well ship builders sell their ship building service, mercenaries sell their service, I an information broker am selling information. DFN has stolen Euro-corp and vaygr ships in the past, we have stolen theirs if trading those stolen enemy ships is ok then how is it not ok to role play and sell the service. Besides the people I have "sold" to haven't actually paid a thing the selling of the ships is entirely a roleplay aspect of my faction as I have 0 need for wealth or money.

so in summery things you need to prove before you even continue here.

They are with out a shadow of a doubt your ships, not sure how you can do this, but you need to prove it before shouting copyright.

That I in fact even have them.

That I am even selling them.

before the discussion of owner ship can even be entertained we need to know these details.

Also from what I heard between your faction leaders, there was talk about stealing euro-corp and vaygr ships but you guys didn't know how to get anyway, so you resort to QQing because you can't get your way, when you would have done the same your self had you the ability. Which I find hilarious, not only double standards and QQing to the mods, but more deceitful and disingenuous behavior then I partake in myself, the worm has indeed turned gentlemen.

Please MrNature, whos faction is riddled with spies at every level...you who is the real master of spies, please tell me what a real spy would do, as you are so clearly successful in the area of espionage and triplicity such that you know what you are talking about. In fairness you talk to my spies more then I do...



also can you tell me some about this no true Scotsman fallacy you used,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
for someone who prides themselves on their writing skill, a logical fallacy, really?